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"When" "When"
by Jan Sand
2008-09-26 09:52:52
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When the moon was a silver queen
And the sun was a golden king,
Then the Earth was a tangle of jungle
With a few green fields between.

A man in a cave that he made his home
Scratched lines upon his walls
That plotted the paths the planets made
On midnight's star strewn dome.
The man believed what he saw with his eyes
And knew what he touched with his hand.
He soared with his mind where he could not walk
To solve what he watched in the skies.
The man knew well how a stone fell,
It fell in a special way. He could compute
Beyond dispute the way the skies could form.
And his clear mind could also tell
That things many thought mysterious
Like wizards whizzing through the trees
And dragons roaring through the woods
Should not be accepted as serious.
As time went on his ideas spread
And the world became more practical.
People learned that the Moon was a rock
And the Sun was a fire, hot and red
While the stars that all could see
Moved in a space vast and far away
 
And vanished in the Sun's bright day.
So all the world soon did agree
That the man made obvious sense.
The dragons and wizards melted away
A rock became no more than a rock
And the universe grew quite immense.
But the man in his cave would stare at his fire
And think of the Moon as a silver queen
And dream when the Sun was a golden king
And wondered, deep down, of desire.


 
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Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 11:58:25
"Poetry is the breath and finer spirit of all knowledge"
--William Wordsworth
(Add a comment)

When the sun was a brother and the moon was a sister
St. Francis roamed the streets of Assisi and Dante those of Florence
The universe was a poem gloriously romantic
For it set no bounds to the imagination and intuition
Playing over space and time and revealing that
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was a poet
And the universe was Her poem and her name was Wisdom.
The world people had thought themselves living in
A world rich with color and sound
Redolent with fragrance, filled with gladness love and beauty
Speaking everywhere of purposive harmony and creative ideals
Is crowded now into minute corners in the brains
Of scattered organic beings unable to grasp the foundations
Of modern physical science and living in a cave
Where they grind axes against the sacred and the reverent
And look at the fire and see their shadow on the wall
And mistake them for the sun and the moon.


Nietzsche2008-09-26 13:29:41
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O02yAAmU3Ww


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 17:49:52
Netzsche redivivus? Which leads us to the profound Nietzschean question: does rule n. 4 of the comment policy at Ovi still apply in a tupsy turvy world, not to speak of all the others?


Sand2008-09-26 18:03:57
I am delighted that Nietzsche tackled the same subject although I had not previously been aware of it. Comparison of the two makes me feel happy I did a better job.
I assume Netsche is a net personality and I am surprised a defunct philosopher is aware of anything including rules of net publications.


Sand2008-09-26 19:17:50
This is the poem that Paparella presents as written by Nietzsche.

When the sun was a brother and the moon was a sister
St. Francis roamed the streets of Assisi and Dante those of Florence
The universe was a poem gloriously romantic
For it set no bounds to the imagination and intuition
Playing over space and time and revealing that
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was a poet
And the universe was Her poem and her name was Wisdom.
The world people had thought themselves living in
A world rich with color and sound
Redolent with fragrance, filled with gladness love and beauty
Speaking everywhere of purposive harmony and creative ideals
Is crowded now into minute corners in the brains
Of scattered organic beings unable to grasp the foundations
Of modern physical science and living in a cave
Where they grind axes against the sacred and the reverent
And look at the fire and see their shadow on the wall
And mistake them for the sun and the moon.

He refers only obliquely to its resemblance to my poem in that he infers or wants others to infer that I stole it. As I noted above, I had never seen it before, and am, in general, unfamiliar with Nietzsche’s writings except second hand but this is sufficient to arouse the very strong suspicion that the poem was the creation of Paparella fabricated to create a sneak attack on me.
The first suspicion comes from the third line from the end where ax grinding is mentioned, a cliché used repeatedly by Mr.P. and something I frankly doubt Nietzsche used. Considering how unaccomplished Mr.P. is in general in writing style and vocabulary it’s not a bad effort but it’s still fairly lousy poetry and Nietzsche was, after all, a pretty good writer. But an analytical glance at the attitudes and emotions and references to religion expressed are an even stronger indication that Nietzsche pretty certainly would not have written it.

It is naturally quite in character for Paparella to perform scoundrelous acts to attempt to discredit anyone revealing what a fool he is. The only thing he and I have in common is our mutual difficulty in correctly spelling Nietzsche.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 20:59:27
Is that what the voices told you this time around? Don't pay attention to them. Read what's there. The third comment's reference to Nietzsche has nothing to do with what the voices told you (that the comment referred to your poem) for the comment refers to the second comment signed by Nietzsche (was it you perhaps impersonating Nietzsche?). So, your poem remains your poem till proven otherwise, and mine remains mine and they speak for themselves. No need for deviousness and accusation of plagiarism. This is not the O J Simpson trial...You know, you really ought to find a way to get rid of those nasty voices in your head; they make you look like a complete fool, and a scurrilous villain to boot.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 21:07:03
This is the poem that Paparella presents as written by Nietzsche" (mR. S).

To be absolutely clear on the scurrilous false statement above:

I NEVER SAID THAT THE POEM I WROTE WAS WRITTEN BY NIETZSCHE, NOR IS IT WRITTEN ANYWHERE IN THIS FORUM. THAT IS WHAT THE VOICES IN YOUR HEAD SAID.


Sand2008-09-26 21:16:09
Fine. I'm happy I inspired you to take a shot at it. The interest and discipline of poetry may penetrate where logic and common sense has failed.
But I have failed to discover rule 4 of the comment policy that you claim I have violated. What is that rule?
This is the only point I find intriguing after the removal of the regular tripe you insist on packaging with your standard comments.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 21:25:56
These are the first five rules of the Ovi comment policy. There is 10 all together. You may wish to ask how many have you violated! All you need to do is click on comment policy before you send your scurrilous ad hominem accusations. As I said, you need to stop to those nasty voices.

1.To harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another participant, user, or other individual or entity;

2.To transmit or publish any information, data, text, files, links, software, or other materials ("Content") that Ovi magazine considers to be unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

3.To cause any screen to "scroll" faster than other users are able to type to it or any action to a similar disruptive effect;

4.To impersonate any person;

5.To disrupt the normal flow of dialogue or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other participants;


Sand2008-09-26 21:28:34
OK. Just which person do you assume I have impersonated?


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 21:31:31
P.S. Since Mietzsche, unlike God is surely dead, I asked in comment n. 3 if the one impersonating him in comment n. 2 (whomever he may be)was violating rule n. 4. It's all there, if you had bothered to read irenically rather than jump on your horse rattling your saber.


Sand2008-09-26 21:38:28
Having never met either Mietzsche or God I cannot vouch for the liveliness of either one nor have I ever tried to convince anybody I was either one. But your comments are so inarticulate I am not informed as to what the hell you are trying to say.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 21:41:24
P.S. You'd be better off by far to eat your non-aggressive chocolate cakes than engaging in aggressive diatribes passing for philosophical wisdom. The Emperor, unfortunately, remains naked grinding his ax in a cave at the light of a fire!


Sand2008-09-26 21:48:18
Wisdom? I thought you were the wise guy. I'm merely analytical and reasonable. I'm not in the wisdom line. I leave that to pompous professors. And stop picking on my innocent chocolate cake.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 21:57:35
Some relevant Stoic wisdom to analyze under the light of reason away from bias and bashing propaganda:

"If somebody is vain, this means he thinks he knows better than somebody else, he is better than somebody else, he wants the attention of people, he wants to occupy the center of the stage. What does he accomplish there? What is the obstacle? Anybody can be loud and, let me say, display poor manners. All it requires is to have an impulse to do it and follow it through. There is no obstacle to poor manners if you wish to display them. And if then you are proud because you have called attention to yourself, that's not pride. That's vanity. You call it pride, perhaps, but it is vanity." (Manage Your Fears Manage Your Anger, p. 198).
© 1995 by Phyllis Low Berning and Marilyn Low Schmitt
The Wisdom of Dr. Low is compiled by Cliff Brown and edited by Marilyn Low Schmitt


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 21:59:49
As for Nietzsche I can vouch for him being dead. Can your voices vouch the same?


Sand2008-09-26 22:11:25
You are so trusting of authority, Paparella. If James Dean is still floating around and thousands of people are sure that Elvis Presley and God and Jesus are still alive (after two thousand years) who are you to say that Nietzsche is defunct? I don't need voices to tell me that.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-26 23:21:24
Tell the ignorant mad voices in your head that Nietzsche never said that "God is dead" just as Shakespeare never said "to be or not to be." It was Hamlet who said that. Similarly Nietzche put the words "God is dead in the mouth of a madman:

"Have you heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly, "I seek God! I seek God!" As many of those who do not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter... Whither is God," he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers.... God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him..."

--Friedrich Nietzsche. "The Gay Science"(1882), section 126







Sand2008-09-26 23:47:30
There you go again trusting in authority. Some say God is dead, some that God is alive and some say He has yet to be born. And there is no proof of any of it for God is as elusive as a greased pig with or without lipstick.
Interesting that there is a homosexual science.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-27 00:02:19
Look it up in the dictionary: gay still means as an alternate what it used to mean: lighthearted and carefree "happy" but you wouldn't know that in your ignorance just as Nietzsche would not know that it would come to mean homesexual. Moreover, even if you are the one who hammered Michelangelo's Pieta, do not flatter yourself; you too shall die and you are surely no Jesus Christ...


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-27 00:05:21
And don't listen to the voices who counsel you to invent your own private language; therein lies madness. Nietzsche would know about that.


AP2008-09-27 01:15:31
Hey Nietzsche, are you Mietzsche or God?

Is it really you?

Do you write poems?

Is James Dean alive?

Where?

Are you gay, Nietzsche?

Do you know what gay means?

Did you kill God?

Or was it the Madman?

How come?

Whither is God or just some kind of Saint?

Did you hammer the Pieta?

Which brand (the hammer)?

It felt good?

Do you eat pizza, Nietzsche?

Favorite topping?

Michelangelo was a Ninja Turtle and he loved pizza. What colour was his Rambo-like forehead fabric?

Did you breathe Michelangelo's atoms this morning?

The turtle or the artist?


Come on, it's Ask a Stupid Question Day!! (I didn't notice before) :P


AP2008-09-27 01:24:28
One day when I grow up I'm going to impersonate a person.

That's the first thing.

The second thing is

to buy a swastika ring

just to piss you all off.


AP2008-09-27 01:25:22
You too, Nietzsche!


AP2008-09-27 01:34:52
I'm sorry, just too many voices mixed with chocolate in my head. I'm not going to tell you what I'm on - I will just tell you:

it's GOOD!!

GOD IS GOOD! NIETZSCHE IS BETTER! TAKE THAT PIETA!


Sand2008-09-27 01:59:55
Paparella's flipped his lid
His queries rant and rave.
Could it be he's flipped his lid
So even Jesus couldn't save?
It now seems that even Nietzsche
Has passed away, has gone.
Is this bad or is this peachy?
Its late here now (I yawn).
These incidents may be distressing
But I'm back to bed to rest my head.
No bother to undressing.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-27 12:29:03
"Now you have heard everything, and why I must return to my solitude. I have kept nothing back from you, my friends. And you have heard, too, who is the most silent of men--and intends to remain so! Ah, my friends! I should have something more to tell you, I should have something more to give you! Why do I not give it? Am I then mean?"

--Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, "The Stillest Hour"

Indeed, the mad and the voices in their head can make all sorts of noise and even utter the most astonishing remarks. But they ultimately make no sense. They lack recognizable or common meaning and the consistency demanded of ordinary logic; or worse, they strike listeners and observers as fantastic and absurd, having no bearing to a shared reality or set of common values. If silence poses a breakdown in genuine communication, madness indicates an absence of or disrespect for any serious aspect of it.


Sand2008-09-27 12:51:22
When Paparella generates
A modicum of sense,
I'll be the first, I let you know,
To come to his defense.
But raging cuckoo nuttiness
Provides his mode of action.
And claiming reason is unreason
Is his sole reaction.
He holds it true,
I must rue,
That fantasy is master.
So must I therefore quickly say
This guy is a disaster.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-27 14:44:51
If truth be told, an intellectual bully by its own nature can only come to the defense of those who agree with his biases.


Emanuel Paparella2008-09-27 14:48:38
By the way, "no bother to undressing" is bad grammar and bad poetry too.


Sand2008-09-27 15:12:22
Which only demonstrates very clearly, Paparella, you know little about grammar and less about poetry.


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